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Batman v Superman - Full Spoilers of Justice


COMPLETE SPOILERS BELOW

BvS: DoJ had an uphill battle ahead of it due to both Zack Snyder's divisive rep as a film maker and the fact that we, as comic fans, have been spoiled many times over by DC animation, Marvel Studios and the DC CW-verse. Besides being the first live-action meeting of DC's two most popular heroes, this film also took on the burden of setting up the Justice League. Taking the opposite path to Marvel's Avengers, Warner's has made the choice to try and introduce all the JL heroes at once. It's a slight detriment to the flow of the narrative and it remains to be seen it it will pay off in the long run.

There's plenty of comic source material referenced here, from "The Dark Knight Returns" to "The Death of Superman" with some New 52 Justice League and a bit from "Crisis on Infinite Earths". The tone of the movie is very operatic which is reinforced by Hans Zimmer's score which is, at times, too overbearing.

As to the title battle, the actual Batman/Superman fight doesn't last long and comes toward the end of the admittedly too long running time. The bulk of the first half of the film deals with the question of whether Superman is friend or foe to humanity. This question is dealt with by Bruce Wayne, Lex Luthor, Lois Lane and Senator June Finch (Holly Hunter). Superman is pretty much a bystander here, more of a plot device than a character with Clark Kent getting more to do as he tries to convince Perry White to let him do a story about Gotham's "bat vigilante". The fight follows the basic "superhero fight 101" rules. Misunderstanding/ideological difference leads to disagreement which is capitalized on by villain who takes action to further rift. Heroes finally discover they've been duped and are not so different and team up against common enemy. This was all apparent from the final trailer. In the end it's Lois stepping in, plus Bruce's realization that both his and Clark's mother are named Martha, that sways the Bat long enough to figure out he's wrong.

There's been plenty of complaints about the pacing and editing and I can understand why. The several dream/nightmare sequences break into the story at random points and, while it wasn't difficult to follow the story line overall, it takes a bit to figure out what's going on. The discovery of the other future Justice Leaguers via Lex Luthor's secret files was, I suppose, the least messy way to intro the characters without swelling the story even more.

The main nightmare sequence is a direct reference to Darkseid's invasion of Earth. Those winged creatures are Parademons and Darkseid's omega symbol is clearly seen in the sequence. Throughout the film Luthor references devils from the sky and he indicates to Batman that something is coming and that it's hungry. Luthor seems to already know about Darkseid, which may account for some of his actions. The name "Darkseid" is never actually mentioned, but it's obvious to comic fans.

Luthor creates Doomsday using Zod's body, also obvious in the trailer. As you know, Doomsday is created for only one purpose, to kill Superman. And that he does as they kill each other in the final battle just like in the "Death of Superman" comics. There's a long funeral scene at the end for both Superman (presumably an empty coffin) and Clark back in Smallville, who was reported killed in the chaos. The last scene indicates that he'll be back soon, but the manner of his resurrection is a mystery.

Oh, yeah, don't think you'll get out of seeing the Waynes get shot again. That scene is referenced several times. Everybody's gotta put their own spin on it.

As to the individual characters.....

Affleck does a good job as Frank Miller style old, angry Batman. His fear of Superman destroying humanity drives his actions, and Luthor's manipulation of the situation pushes him along. Despite looking puffy in the suit, he moves well in action. There's a few things about Batman that will rub folks the wrong way. First, he seems to have no issues offing bad guys. That's nothing new as Keaton's batman killed henchmen left and right and Bale's Batman had no problem using lethal force if necessary. The use of guns, though.....first we see it in the nightmare sequence, Batman using guns to kill the enemy. Given it was a nightmare, though, we can say that wasn't real. Toward the end of the film, though, he uses an enemy's gun to kill another guy. In this situation, he was desperate to save Martha Kent who had a gun to her head, so, extenuating circumstances? Personally, I didn't lose my mind over it as some have. One has to wonder, though, how the Joker is still alive after killing a Robin if this Batman has no issues with killing.

Cavill's Superman, as I said above, is pretty much just a symbol in the first half of the film, then acts guilt-ridden and doubtful. He really doesn't come alive til the finale, then dies. Superman really got the short end of the stick in this one. The Clark side gets a little more characterization showing his relationship with Lois and his interaction with Bruce Wayne, who he pegs as Batman thanks to super hearing. But, like Perry White says, nobody cares about Clark Kent taking on the Batman.

Gal Godot's Wonder Woman is somewhat of a bright spot. She enters the final battle as a true Amazon warrior who revels in the battle. She's got the bracelets, she's got the lasso and Gal pulls off the character well. The one issue folks seem to be having is that she fought in WWI and then left mankind and went back to Themiscyra for 100 years. Hopefully this will be elaborated on in her movie.

Jesse Eisenberg as Luthor....interesting choice. Luthor is brilliant, manipulative, manic and a little crazy. I didn't mind this version of Luthor in this universe. As I said, there's indications that he knows about Darkseid, and his actions may even have been influenced by the big bad. We also find out in the climax that Luthor knows that Clark is Superman, a fact that really comes out of the blue.

Jeremy Irons did a good enough job as Alfred. This Alfred acts as Batman's oracle, the guy who sits at the computers and directs Batman where to go and what to do. As we've seen on TV, every good hero needs one of those guys/girls. Irons also delivers an Alfred with extra snark.

Lois Lane is very smart, but annoys the piss out of me. She continues to put herself in situations where only Superman can rescue her which turns out badly for him every time.

There's a brief glimpse of Aquaman. Very brief. Not sure why he got so many action figures for a 15 second appearance.

Cyborg's origin is briefly seen and it's the New 52 version where he's formatted by a Mother Box.

The Flash.......ehhhh. The Flash appears to Batman at the end of his nightmare. He seems to be traveling from the future to deliver a warning, hence my "Crisis" reference. I'm not sure if the warning pertained to this film or the coming JL movie, or whether Bruce's nightmare was a possible vision of the future where Superman is corrupted. Guess we'll find out in a few years. It's very hard to tell what this Flash's "armored" costume looks like, but from what I could make out it doesn't look good. We also see him briefly out of costume. Ezra Miller's long, dark hair looks nothing like any Barry Allen we know but I'll wait til he's fully revealed to pass final judgment.

We already know Green Lantern will not be introduced until at least JL part 2, and there's no J'onn J'onzz planned for this universe yet, and hopefully never considering what's been happening to the Suicide Squad on Arrow.

Overall, I'd give thew film a C. With a shorter running time, some smoother editing, and the absence of the JL set up it could have been a better film. The dark, serious tone is just something I've resolved to accept in this universe, so I'll judge the rest as it comes.

Footnote #1 - there is no post credit scene and no references to Suicide Squad. The showing I went to didn't even show the SS trailer before the film.

Footnote #2 - Thomas and Martha Wayne are played by Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Lauren Cohan.

Footnote #3 - There's a photographer with Lois at the start of the move who gets shot and killed. He's never named, but Snyder has come out and said that it's Jimmy. Snyder says that there's was no room for him in their world so he decided to just kill him. I can't help but think Snyder is trolling the fans at this point as a middle finger to all the criticism.

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3/27/2016, 10:48 pm Link to this post Send Email to Gojitron   Send PM to Gojitron
 
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Re: Batman v Superman - Full Spoilers of Justice


-Slight variation on the Wayne killings. Interesting bit with the pearl necklace getting caught on the gun, and breaking as if fires. Interesting, but...I dunno...maybe flashy?

-The footage of the JL members was pretty forced. Flash would've been found out by local police or the store clerk, he's so obvious. Aquaman, for a 15-or-so second spot, kind of lingered. Not a lot of mystery. Cyborg...damn. They went overboard on how much of his body he loses. And I was kind of expecting that Wonder Woman in the old picture to be revealed as Hippolyta or something. Didn't quite look like Gadot.

-Superman alone survives and explosion that takes out everyone in the room, probably the building, and he looks like he's got a whiff of someone's nasty fart. Also, bye, Mercy.

-Zack Snyder apparently confirmed the Jimmy Olsen was the CIA operative that took one in the head at the beginning. Because he doesn't "have a place in their world". Quite the philosophy there, Zacky..."I see no value in this character so kill'em off! WWEEEEE!"

-Batman is determined to kill Superman for the destruction he caused. So he drives through several buildings, killing numerous goons in order to end the "1% chance that makes it a definite because that's how science works" threat of Superman...but stops because their Mom's have the same name. I noticed this years ago, and my brother noted that it's never really been brought up before. But it got brought up here. yay.

-So, all this was apparently planned by Luthor, who found out Clark's identity (not very hard), and Bruce's (however). He apparently deprived Wallace of his compensation checks, had them graffitti'ed to antagonize Bruce. He knew Bats stole the one rock on Earth that could end Batman...apparently and accurately assuming that Batman did so to END Superman. So he kidnaps Martha Kent (who got a new job since Sears was totaled in MoS), tells Supes to kill Batman, probably intending Batman to kill Supes. Then he could...I dunno...kill Bats at his leisure. So Doomsday was apparently his Plan B. This begs the question...WHY?! Why pit these guys together at all?! None of it makes sense! Was Doomsday supposed to be his loyal soldier against Darkseid (whom it seems he learned about through the Krypto-computers)? Well, the thing tried to punch him in an instant, so...what the heck? I can't wait for some sycophant to get all condescending and tell me that I "don't get it" or that "it's leading somewhere, give it time!"

-Wonder Woman was fine enough. Kind of liked that she smiled in the midst of battle. My brother thinks the story would've been the same without her (and the JL nods and nightmares), but honestly...she was the highlight of this film.

-Dreams and nightmares were one thing when they fed Bruce's paranoia. Making them psychic visions of Darkseid's invasion means Bats is, well...somehow psychic. And the Future-Flash bit? What the hell, dudes? I know you're trying for universe-building here, and you're desperate to compete with/match Marvel's success, but cramming all this stuff into one movie hurts the story. Tell one damn story at a time! All this could've been done with Bruce talking to Diana at the end, saying something ominous about the Metahuman Thesis or something. Yeah, it'd be a bit too similar to Nick Fury's cameo at the end of Iron Man but it'd cut the ham-fisted padding.

-I know Batman has had guns on his vehicles before, but...this was overkill. Pun intended. Guns are on all his things, and no sign of non-lethal ordinance. In previous movies, they weren't quite so prevalent. Or numerous, as I recall. Maybe that's why they were easy to overlook. I dunno.

-This is supposed to have a Dark Knight Returns style Batman. Older and a bit more brutal for it. But his parents died in 1981...say he was ten at the time, he's in his mid forties. Doesn't quite have that "coming out of retirement" feel. Especially since there's no indication he ever retired in the first place. So the implication seems to be...this is just who Batman is. Branding people (which he acknowledges is a death sentence in prison, for whatever reason) and haphazardly killing goons. yay.

-Overall, the tone didn't feel that different from Man of Steel, but maybe...I don't know, maybe a little less joyless. Maybe that's because of Martha's remark after Bats saves her, that Superman's suit seemed a tone brighter (which was probably a chore for Snyder to allow), and there was a bit more emotion. Especially at the funeral scenes. I mean, holy smokes, people were expressing something other than dull surprise! Was Snyder asleep and they snuck in some actual emoting on the sly?

-Tickets were $11.25 because the screen we saw it on had Dream Lounger seating (cushioned and adjustable recliners). Afterwards, we got a late lunch at the in-theatre restaurant/bar. My grilled chicken sandwich with fries was $11.24 (I don't think the water cost anything), and still left me a little hungry afterwards. There was a penny difference between the movie and the meal, and I think the former was less satisfying. Side note, they had two special alcoholic drinks: the Dark Knight and the Man of Steel, and a sandwich board kept a tally of how many of each was sold (the Man of Steel sold more). My brother tried one of each, but he found them pretty weak. He likened them more to juice.

Phew...

So, overall? I dunno. I didn't have much expectations beyond it being terribly dreary, and it managed to have a bit more smiles and one joke more than the previous movie. It has some elements or scenes with potential (like the vision of Pa Kent talking about saving the farm from a flood, but it ruined the Lang farm), but that potential is not quite met. Not as horrific as I was expecting, but doesn't exactly fill me with hope for the franchise.

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3/28/2016, 10:16 pm Link to this post Send Email to SporkBot   Send PM to SporkBot
 
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Re: Batman v Superman - Full Spoilers of Justice


quote:

SporkBot wrote:

 Was Doomsday supposed to be his loyal soldier against Darkseid (whom it seems he learned about through the Krypto-computers)? Well, the thing tried to punch him in an instant, so...what the heck? I can't wait for some sycophant to get all condescending and tell me that I "don't get it" or that "it's leading somewhere, give it time!"



They just released a deleted scene that shows Luthor and....someone else...in the Kryptonian ship with some Mother Boxes. I'm thinking that somehow Luthor was manipulated into creating Doomsday so he could rid the Earth of heroes ahead of Darkseid's invasion. Just my theory.


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3/28/2016, 10:31 pm Link to this post Send Email to Gojitron   Send PM to Gojitron
 
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Re: Batman v Superman - Full Spoilers of Justice


quote:

Gojitron wrote:


They just released a deleted scene that shows Luthor and....someone else...in the Kryptonian ship with some Mother Boxes. I'm thinking that somehow Luthor was manipulated into creating Doomsday so he could rid the Earth of heroes ahead of Darkseid's invasion. Just my theory.



Well, I saw a picture of Lex looking at some Krypto-holo-image of a creature that looked like Doomsday crossed with the Devil (feeding into Lex' pretty limited concept of God and so forth they were establishing).

But still, say that was going to be Doomsday's ultimate evolution, and Lex was Darkseid's pawn or whatever...this is stuff they should try working into THIS film, making it clearer. It suffers because they're focusing on all the crap they're anticipating. They're too focused on the future they want, they're paying no mind to the present. Give hints of things to come, fine, but don't bash the audience over the head with it!

Also, that knife Bruce and Diana were looking at, the one that's "actually a fake"? Yeah, I immediately thought of the White Ranger's talking dagger. Just...putting that out there. I mean, maybe "Saba" was based on Alexander the Great's knot-cutting blade, but still...just kinda funny.

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3/29/2016, 11:47 am Link to this post Send Email to SporkBot   Send PM to SporkBot
 
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Re: Batman v Superman - Full Spoilers of Justice


quote:

SporkBot wrote:

They're too focused on the future they want, they're paying no mind to the present.



Yup, agreed.



Last edited by Gojitron, 4/2/2016, 3:33 pm


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3/29/2016, 12:08 pm Link to this post Send Email to Gojitron   Send PM to Gojitron
 
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Re: Batman v Superman - Full Spoilers of Justice


I don't remember who, but someone posted this gag here, or it was a poster at the Outhouse. I just Photoshopped it to life...

Image

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4/2/2016, 1:51 pm Link to this post Send Email to SporkBot   Send PM to SporkBot
 
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Re: Batman v Superman - Full Spoilers of Justice


BvS has been repeatedly nominated, and it deserves nearly every single one.

Except Irons and Affleck. I didn't think they were bad, just had garbage to work with. Still don't know if Cavill's performance is largely him or the combination of bad writing and directing.

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1/8/2017, 12:31 pm Link to this post Send Email to SporkBot   Send PM to SporkBot
 
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Re: Batman v Superman - Full Spoilers of Justice


Razzies really love to pick the low hanging fruit.

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1/8/2017, 1:21 pm Link to this post Send Email to Gojitron   Send PM to Gojitron
 


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