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Re: Fire Emblem Fates: Or GS and OM go on about something nobody else plays


So, the weapon triangle is weird in this game, I've noticed.

The new triangle is pretty easy to understand. Thrown and Lances beat Swords and Spells which beat Axes/Bows.

It's just odd when the magic system is completely different. There's no Thunder/Elthunder/Thoron progression anymore, and a lot of them have different effects. At least in this case, the tool tips are actually pretty accurate, or I'd be kinda lost keeping track what does what.

Sheep Spirit is possibly the funniest thing on the Hoshido Route, given it's a spell that doubles as a Vulnerary.

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Re: Fire Emblem Fates: Or GS and OM go on about something nobody else plays


Also, doing some digging around, it appears that Master Seals and such are tied to your shop's upgrade level in My Castle. Once you upgrade it to Tier 3, you can get infinite Master Seals.

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3/4/2016, 9:16 pm Link to this post Send PM to Optimal Megatron AIM
 
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Re: Fire Emblem Fates: Or GS and OM go on about something nobody else plays


quote:

Optimal Megatron wrote:

So, the weapon triangle is weird in this game, I've noticed.

The new triangle is pretty easy to understand. Thrown and Lances beat Swords and Spells which beat Axes/Bows.

It's just odd when the magic system is completely different. There's no Thunder/Elthunder/Thoron progression anymore, and a lot of them have different effects. At least in this case, the tool tips are actually pretty accurate, or I'd be kinda lost keeping track what does what.

Sheep Spirit is possibly the funniest thing on the Hoshido Route, given it's a spell that doubles as a Vulnerary.



Yea, I was complaining about the changes to the weapon triangle awhile back - not that it's changed, I'm fine with that, but that it's not really spelled out anywhere, and I made more than one mistake before I reprogrammed my brain to the new rules.

I do like that the two sides have weaponry that's different in more than name only (and the Diviner Spirts are awesome, I'm especially a big fan of Calamity Gate, which throws a triangle reversing, critical hitting !@#$ giant Oni mask. :lol). But even the basic stuff is different, which I picked up on when I realized that Silias' default Steel Sword has different stats than a Steel Katana, which is a great little touch.

As for the progression, it's still there, they just went back to the older version where Anima (in this case, Nohr Magic Tomes) is one general catch-all as opposed to the sub-trees of the Tellius games (and Awakening.. i think. All the Anima mages in that game were so shitty compared to Dark Mages I don't think I ever used one other than to get their kids/pass on skills)., so that Fire/Thun/Wind are the equivalent of Bronze/Iron/Steel again, and then the unique named books like Ragnarok, Firbulvmber (htf it's spelled) are the better/special stuff. The El/Arc ranked books only tend to show up in games where Anima is it's own Triangle.

But yea, I solved the Master Seal issue when I realised they start throwing them to you like candy in later chapters and your kids COME with a steroided up version called an Offspring Seal, which gives them a bunch of free level ups in the process. Not sure if they get dinged on stats for doing so or not, however, I won't look into the data mining til i finish a regular playthru of the game. Probably though, but my team was so desperate for soldiers that don't blow that I used it to press new troops into service quickly. Seriously, Hoshido is like Daein, they all suuuuucccck besides Takumi (he can be a dick all he wants, he's the best archer since Rolf and he comes with an unbreakable, 11 mt killer bow) and Oboro, who's a repaint/retool of Nephenee. emoticon


Last edited by Greatshot, 3/5/2016, 1:39 am
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Re: Fire Emblem Fates: Or GS and OM go on about something nobody else plays


So, looking at that comment about Birthright's characters, I'm starting to wonder about the design space for the growths here.

For instance, Rinkah, who was mostly in my team cause I like her design and attitude, required a bit of babying at first. Giving her a forged weapon or two helped, but it wasn't until she finally cracked 20 and I promoted her to Oni Chieftain that she really shined.

Similarly, my guys were great against T1 enemies, but the promoted mooks here were minor bosses unless you had specialty weapons (hammers, beast slayers). Way more than they were on prior games where a Level 20 Myrmidon would just ace a Level 2 Paladin. There seems to be a bigger stat gap between the two now.

Also, addressing these early seems to be really tied into MyCastle. Forging is limited by ore you find, but early on you won't have great mines or anything. However, you can mozy over to your friends' castle, or a random guys, and get that coral you need to forge better naginatas. Similarly, beating people's MyCastle teams in PVP gives you the chance to recruit Einherjar versions of their troops, or just buy a skill with gold from one of theres. Rinkah became AMAZING when I got her a skill that gives her +40 hit if she makes the first strike, especially when tied with the Oni Chieftain's native +Crit if you initiate combat skill.

Not sure if this is intentional or if they're quietly making the MyCastle stuff to help you ease out extra layers of difficulty. Think it's too easy? Don't forge weapons or PVP to get better skills. Getting tougher? The door's always open. It's interesting.

Also, the gold map is ridiculous in the DLC. I went from 3K after a forging spree to 73K gold in one run. I think the turn limit is to prevent you from breaking the bank. :lol

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3/7/2016, 5:22 pm Link to this post Send PM to Optimal Megatron AIM
 
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Re: Fire Emblem Fates: Or GS and OM go on about something nobody else plays


quote:

Optimal Megatron wrote:

For instance, Rinkah, who was mostly in my team cause I like her design and attitude, required a bit of babying at first. Giving her a forged weapon or two helped, but it wasn't until she finally cracked 20 and I promoted her to Oni Chieftain that she really shined.



Rinkah was so !@#$ godawful useless for me that I benched her and went thru 80 percent of the game without an axe user. Wasn't until a few of my promo classes got axe secondaries that I got people with axes. But they're so outclassed I barely ever use the axe now since half the time the better ranked initial weapon is better even without the triangle modifier.

quote:

Similarly, my guys were great against T1 enemies, but the promoted mooks here were minor bosses unless you had specialty weapons (hammers, beast slayers). Way more than they were on prior games where a Level 20 Myrmidon would just ace a Level 2 Paladin. There seems to be a bigger stat gap between the two now.



I noticed this to a small degree, but it didn't see THAT much of a different, just more that the opposing promotes actually got the class change buff instead of being rolled as pre-promotes so they have shitty Jeigan stats. However, it seemed every fight has a couple of "minor boss" statted troops in it. (minor bosses being your generic named bandit leader types, as opposed to major story bosses)

quote:

Also, addressing these early seems to be really tied into MyCastle. Forging is limited by ore you find, but early on you won't have great mines or anything. However, you can mozy over to your friends' castle, or a random guys, and get that coral you need to forge better naginatas. Similarly, beating people's MyCastle teams in PVP gives you the chance to recruit Einherjar versions of their troops, or just buy a skill with gold from one of theres. Rinkah became AMAZING when I got her a skill that gives her +40 hit if she makes the first strike, especially when tied with the Oni Chieftain's native +Crit if you initiate combat skill.



I got the majority of my ore just from doing arena fights. Easy enough to beat the 2nd round with a decent pair of characters. Rd 3.. eeeh. Chancy. :lol

quote:

Not sure if this is intentional or if they're quietly making the MyCastle stuff to help you ease out extra layers of difficulty. Think it's too easy? Don't forge weapons or PVP to get better skills. Getting tougher? The door's always open. It's interesting.



I vehemently dislike this being the case. FE is nicely tough traditionally. Having to do a bunch of social !@#$ to get a good team is asinine. However, like I said, I've been disturbingly under-powered (to the point I actually have to go do a bit of grinding if I want to beat Endgame without causalities). My pet theory of it being they're underpowered since you can grind in the Hoshido path will be tested soon. I'm hoping this is the case, because if the Nohr team sucks this bad.. yeeargh, I might actually regret going Classic. :lol

quote:

Also, the gold map is ridiculous in the DLC. I went from 3K after a forging spree to 73K gold in one run. I think the turn limit is to prevent you from breaking the bank. :lol



Believe it or not it's actually toned down from the gold map from Awakening. At least this one makes you have to work a little at it. :lol



Last edited by Greatshot, 3/8/2016, 6:52 pm
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Re: Fire Emblem Fates: Or GS and OM go on about something nobody else plays


So, I got Rinkah, slowly, to Level 5 as an Oni Chieftain.

She got Deathblow, which gives her +20 Crit when she initiates the attack.

Then I forged two Great Clubs together, to give her a 45 Hit weapon that has a 55% Crit chance.

If she initiates an attack, she averages 80-90% crit chance. Against PROMOTED enemies. Mother of GOD. :lol

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3/11/2016, 2:50 am Link to this post Send PM to Optimal Megatron AIM
 
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Glad to see sticking with her pays off. I feared she was another Ricken :lol

So yeah, finished Birthright. After grinding a bit (christ, some of the DLC are BRUTAL!), I got everyone to 15 where they start hitting some of their stat caps and get their lv 15 skills which are generally MAJOR boosts (the faire skills add +5 damage in this one). Rolled the 2 part endgame this time with a hand from RNGesus, who was strangely completely on my side for pt 2 (I dodged every attack under 90% but one :lol)

Got to the boss, was working up to taking out the last couple minions, hadn't quite got the rest of my party up to his zone yet. One more turn, I'll be ready to attack.

Enemy Phase: "OMGWTFBBQ HE MOVED."

Thing comes over, casts.. a... thing. That.. does nothing? (it's strange, there's all these sigils on the map that don't seem to do anything. I presumed he was summoning more fodder from them at first, but no. And no damage. Stat on the dragon vein said it healed him, but he was full, so Yeah. No idea wtf the sigils are for)

I realize I'm gonna have to figure this out now or people are gonna die. My avatar can hit him 2x, but not kill him. I attack, get the boss down to like 26 hp. Hmm. Azura's too far away to sing to the avatar. Look to Sophie. Nope, she dies on the counter. Kagero? Probably dies TWICE on the counter. :lol Takumi can do 6 dmg, and will be down to 2 hp. Okay, gotta figure out some other way.. Hana. The Swordmasteriest Swordmaster that ever Swordmastered. She gained THIRTY. SEVEN. Levels over the course of Birthright (20/17). She got exactly ZERO defense. I ended up giving her all 3 Dracoshields I found to get her up to.. 14. And since SMs on this one suuuuck unless they attack (the dodge drop on enemy phase.. uuuurgk.)

She can do 17 damage. Not enough to kill him, but.. she gets 2 attacks. The counter is a 26% accuracy instadeath plus another 20 or so damage for good measure.

Well. Okay, if i bring Caeldori over for support, i can get it down to.. 16%. And she'll do 3 on the support strike, with like a 50/50 shot at connecting.

I roll the dice, stay my prayers to the RNGods, and attack. No Astra. Hana hits, Caely misses (Of COURSE SHE DOES!), and I watch as the boss swings for the fences. And misses.

Hana attacks and GG.

And THAT is why Classic is Fire Emblem at it's finest. emoticon


3/12/2016, 1:02 am Link to this post Send PM to Greatshot
 
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quote:

Greatshot wrote:

Glad to see sticking with her pays off. I feared she was another Ricken :lol



Yeah, I leveled her up in Oni Chieftain and then used a Heart Seal to cross-class her to Blacksmith after getting that skill. It was such a slog getting her there (and took abusing the EXP map which is MUCH harder than Awakening's) that I didn't want to leave her there any longer than necessary, even if her Level 15 skill is Counter.

Looking online, Rinkah's growths are backwards compared to what you expect her to be. Classic Fighters are high HP, high damage, but low defense. They're the opposite end from Generals. Rinkah's growths are low HP, low damage, but high defense, so at higher ends, she gets plinked more than taking heavy damage (barring unique circumstances like crits or weapon triangle fuckery). And her unique skill gives her extra damage if she's NOT at full HP (it's kind of the opposite to Subaki's Perfectionist, which works only if he's at full HP), so standard FE tactics like healing every scrap of damage actually hurt her.

Late game, driving her crit rate through the roof with weapon and skill choice and using her as a brick wall seems to work well. She's not actually that great on defensive counter attack, but I'm thinking I may cross class her once she hits 15, pick up Counter real quick, and go back to Blacksmith after. That way her Counter skill damage will actually make up for the amount of damage she doesn't do herself when not initiating attacks.

It's an interesting experiment and breaking from standard molds, so I can see why she's really counter-intuitive to start, and a pain to level early on, when low skill stats and no really Killer weapon options limit her outgoing damage.

quote:

Greatshot wrote:

So yeah, finished Birthright. After grinding a bit (christ, some of the DLC are BRUTAL!), I got everyone to 15 where they start hitting some of their stat caps and get their lv 15 skills which are generally MAJOR boosts (the faire skills add +5 damage in this one).



Yeah, a LOT of the late promote skills shore up holes that were present in the early game. I remember people talking about how Awakening allowed people to get strong super easy, and for the "introduction" game, Birthright is surprisingly tough. Especially since they stealth-nerfed cross classing, since Heart Seals don't reduce your level back to 1 like Second Seals did, so you have a finite number of levels (until you get the limited seals that increase your level cap).

quote:

Greatshot wrote:

And THAT is why Classic is Fire Emblem at it's finest. emoticon



Yeah, playing through this, I'm not regretting choosing casual this run. It lets me get a lot of learning mistakes under my belt without restarts. But I think after I get done with Conquest and Revelation first runs, I may do a run through of the game again with Classic mode, now that I'm more confident in how the system's been switched up.

A LOT of stuff in the classic formula's been mixed up here, and not in a bad way. I actually like that it's not just "Awakening, With A New Plot and Faces". If this is the way IntSys is going with the franchise, I'm pretty pleased.

Also, since you've beaten Birthright, I'll mention a spoiler I just ran into last night.

Can we talk about how hilariously out of left field they decided to suckerpunch Team Hoshido at Felicia's home village? :lol

Flora: And now I must go. *self-incinerates*
Felicia: Sister! I'll put out the fire! *ice magic*
Flora: Also, this is magic fire that burns FASTER in snow. Thanks for the suicide assistance.
Felicia: WHY DO YOU EVEN HAVE THAT?!



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quote:

Optimal Megatron wrote:

Yeah, I leveled her up in Oni Chieftain and then used a Heart Seal to cross-class her to Blacksmith after getting that skill. It was such a slog getting her there (and took abusing the EXP map which is MUCH harder than Awakening's) that I didn't want to leave her there any longer than necessary, even if her Level 15 skill is Counter.

Looking online, Rinkah's growths are backwards compared to what you expect her to be. Classic Fighters are high HP, high damage, but low defense. They're the opposite end from Generals. Rinkah's growths are low HP, low damage, but high defense, so at higher ends, she gets plinked more than taking heavy damage (barring unique circumstances like crits or weapon triangle fuckery). And her unique skill gives her extra damage if she's NOT at full HP (it's kind of the opposite to Subaki's Perfectionist, which works only if he's at full HP), so standard FE tactics like healing every scrap of damage actually hurt her.

Late game, driving her crit rate through the roof with weapon and skill choice and using her as a brick wall seems to work well. She's not actually that great on defensive counter attack, but I'm thinking I may cross class her once she hits 15, pick up Counter real quick, and go back to Blacksmith after. That way her Counter skill damage will actually make up for the amount of damage she doesn't do herself when not initiating attacks.

It's an interesting experiment and breaking from standard molds, so I can see why she's really counter-intuitive to start, and a pain to level early on, when low skill stats and no really Killer weapon options limit her outgoing damage.




So what I got out of that is that she still sucks. :P

I don't mind babying a character early on for high growth payouts (ie Trainees, Donnel, etc), or having to class finagle on Hard/Lunatic, but anyone that needs that much coddling on normal is a benchwarmer. I appreciate that the Oni classes aren't just Fighter/Warrior to Berzerker with a new name and paintjob (like Samurai are Myrmidon), but it's strange the one playable example of the class (barring others in other stories) is so bad.

quote:

Yeah, a LOT of the late promote skills shore up holes that were present in the early game. I remember people talking about how Awakening allowed people to get strong super easy, and for the "introduction" game, Birthright is surprisingly tough. Especially since they stealth-nerfed cross classing, since Heart Seals don't reduce your level back to 1 like Second Seals did, so you have a finite number of levels (until you get the limited seals that increase your level cap).



I greatly approve of the return to an actual challenge. Awakening was TOO easy. Even on hard you can steamroll everything. Lunatic is still sadist only since you can't grind though. I like the intro of level cap breakers, but I don't think they're all that necessary. This game is more in line with the older FEs statwise, as opposed to the 40+ of RD and Awkening, and I suspect most characters will cap in their focus stats by 20/20 as I was hitting a number of them by 14/15.

quote:

Yeah, playing through this, I'm not regretting choosing casual this run. It lets me get a lot of learning mistakes under my belt without restarts. But I think after I get done with Conquest and Revelation first runs, I may do a run through of the game again with Classic mode, now that I'm more confident in how the system's been switched up.



It's funny, between the changes to the rules throwing me for a loop, and the fact that after 3 easy entries (Shadow Dragon, Mystery of the Emblem S&L, Cakewalkening) I was so off my game (oh hey, this is actually HARD again And my team sucks. !@#$, someone died. Reset!), there were a few moments where I aaaaalmost considered switching switching to casual but my gamer pride, it'd feel like cheating (that's not how FE is played damnit!) and general stubbornness kept me from pulling the trigger. :lol

But the final boss fight made the payoff worth it. In any other TBS game I'd just have feeder-fodder chipped him down. But on classic, !@#$ you, you don't get to see those characters epilogue blurbs . :P

quote:

A LOT of stuff in the classic formula's been mixed up here, and not in a bad way. I actually like that it's not just "Awakening, With A New Plot and Faces". If this is the way IntSys is going with the franchise, I'm pretty pleased.



Agreed. It's just enough of a spin to keep me on my toes "oh, right. X is weak to Y now", but still "feels" like Fire Emblem. I don't mind changing things up a bit as long as the core stays intact. And given that the game's selling really well ensures we should see another one. I also appreciate that it's further proof that traditional (T)JRPGs still have a home in today's gaming.

quote:


Can we talk about how hilariously out of left field they decided to suckerpunch Team Hoshido at Felicia's home village? :lol[

Flora: And now I must go. *self-incinerates*
Felicia: Sister! I'll put out the fire! *ice magic*
Flora: Also, this is magic fire that burns FASTER in snow. Thanks for the suicide assistance.
Felicia: WHY DO YOU EVEN HAVE THAT?!



Yeah, poor Felicia. That girl needs a hug. :lol

The whole game has a pretty high body count of "important" characters.

But yeah, on the whole, I'd say as a stand alone game Birthright was good. Not great, but definitely good and enjoyable. I found it interesting there's a lot of places where things aren't really spelled out, or even just vaguely implied, and do wonder/suspect they'll be expanded on in Conquest and Revelation (the name of that one certainly implies as such :lol). But my one big gripe is that Garon is a boring villian. He's pretty much just "Rargh I'm Evil" though at the very end they imply (which again, I hope they expand on) there's more to it, but compared to Mad King Ashnard, or Lehran, or Lyon or even Walhart he's pretty one-note.

But final opinion I'll hold off on until the end of part 3.

I also felt it's a little too fanservicey. I'm fine with the romance stuff but there's a few points it starts to skirt a bit into uncomfortably fanservice. (though thank goddness they took the creepyass minigame out of the US release) :lol

So yeah, onto Conquest. Redoing the first 6 chapters to see if there's anything I missed on the first go, but that won't take long, especially since I won't accidentally waste a boatload of xp on Felicia this time (...why can't i promote her?.. wait, what, Maids ARE promoted? Well !@#$. :lol)

Last edited by Greatshot, 3/12/2016, 10:38 pm
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Re: Fire Emblem Fates: Or GS and OM go on about something nobody else plays


So, looking to get a second opinion on Kinshi Knights.

The internetz apparently roundly hate them, saying they suck and such. But I'm not really sure.

Kinshi don't get top rank lances, but they DO get bows, making them a bit more accurate than a javelin or bolt naginata. Skillswise, they're weird. Air Superiority increases their skill against other air units, while Amaterasu is a bit of heal army skill like Azura's personal.

Falcon Knights, by comparison, are emergency healers with higher ranked lances, and their skills mostly get Rally Speed for the obvious and Mirror Strike which makes a high res Pegasus an anti-magic tank.

I'm not sure which is better, or if the Kinshi are worth swapping versus someone having, say, a Sniper promotion (I'm thinking of Takumi's kid here).

And visually, !@#$, they are far my favorite over Falcon Knights just for not having that silly rope knot on the saddle. :lol

Also tried the Beach DLC since I got the season pass. It's a pretty fun "scenario" style thing. I could go for this being a thing in the future. Being given pre-gen teams and having to achieve objectives. A fun side-mode to the existing stuff. I beat it with Team Camilla, but lost as Team Hinoka when I got too close to Team Camilla and Team Xander in the same turn. Owwww.

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